Don't compare the ET4000W32 to the S3-864. You're comparing a 32-bit to a 64-bit card. You need to use the W32P or W32i which are effectively 64-bit due to memory interleaving. The W32 is just a regular old ET4000 with lame graphics acceleration under windows.

The other option is to just stick with an IntelDX4. They are also available as 5V Overdrive chips. BIOS support and motherboard compatibility is quite a bit better.

In terms of performance you aren't missing out much because the Intel is slightly faster clock for clock.

On my Biostar MB-8433UUD-A I get these results:

IntelDX4:

3dbench 1.0c:

Results with an AMD 5x86:

+1 for the ASUS boards. Not only the GX4, but all that support 3.3V processors.
I am currently using an early revision of the 486 VL/I SVGOx4 ( I burnt the last SV2GX4 BIOS into a suitable EEPROM, dropped in, works flawlessly )

And yes, even two VLB devices are difficult to make cooperate, three would be a nightmare, not to mention the inevitable performance drop and instability because of the virtually non-existent busmastering.

Anonymous Coward wrote:

Don't compare the ET4000W32 to the S3-864. You're comparing a 32-bit to a 64-bit card. You need to use the W32P or W32i which are effectively 64-bit due to memory interleaving. The W32 is just a regular old ET4000 with lame graphics acceleration under windows.

It wasn't meant as a direct comparison by any means. It was just benchmarking the cards I have available since the discussion was about the mostly unknown performance territory of VLB cards and chipsets

I just don't want others jumping to the conclusion that ET4000W32 offers similar DOS performance to the W32P. I've actually been wanting to do a proper comparison of VLB cards for some time, but there's always been this attitude that all VLB cards are "about the same speed" and there didn't seem to be much interest in compiling a list.

I've been told that S3 Trio64 is supposed to be about the same as ET4000W32P, but I just don't see it when playing games like GTA or Magic Carpet 2. Unfortunately my only real VLB 486 board is no longer accepting either of my W32P cards for some reason, and it's pretty hard for me make my case the way things are.

If we do make a list, please also take wait states into consideration. I have some cards that need one even at 33MHz on certain motherboards. Make sure waitstates are specified.

Here is a pretty good round-up of common VLB cards, driven by a brutally overclocked, nitro-cooled AMD 5x86 at 200 Mhz in a Soyo 4SAW.
1 out of 6 test subject processors qualified, this had to be chilled down to -10 C and electrocuted at 5V 😵
The cards selected were all treated to an FSB of 50 Mhz...
Unfortunately, the principle of the test was to tune each card optimally, not to give them equal footing with zero WS.
I still think it is a good read - Even if you do not speak Hungarian, the specs and photos speak for themselves.

http://bacsis-tuning.hu/2012/05/vesa-buszos-v … kartyak-tesztje

So ET4000W32P is the ownage.? but only if 2megged up.

I have a bunch of those ALG cards and some Cirrus logic and hope to test all in the near future.

Btw testing those cards should also be done at a normal level like 66 or 100mhz cpu instead of 266mhz LN2 am5x86 😉, winner can change in that regions.

Jolaes76 wrote:

http://bacsis-tuning.hu/2012/05/vesa-buszos-v … kartyak-tesztje

I would like to see how a S3 928 performs.

Actually I have the SAW2 myself and a couple of AMD 5x86s but I am unwilling to go nitro on my single Soyo SAW2 board...
I remember that the 3mb 928 was very, very close to the 2mb Tseng in Doom shareware v1.9 timedemo (scored maybe 1.4 fps less on a 160 mhz AMD 5x86 - nothing I would call significant.)
And in many cases, the Brooktrout DAC on the S3 928 is finer than the Tseng ET4000w32 DAC.

I just don't want others jumping to the conclusion that ET4000W32 offers similar DOS performance to the W32P. I've actually been wanting to do a proper comparison of VLB cards for some time, but there's always been this attitude that all VLB cards are "about the same speed" and there didn't seem to be much interest in compiling a list.

I've been told that S3 Trio64 is supposed to be about the same as ET4000W32P, but I just don't see it when playing games like GTA or Magic Carpet 2. Unfortunately my only real VLB 486 board is no longer accepting either of my W32P cards for some reason, and it's pretty hard for me make my case the way things are.

If we do make a list, please also take wait states into consideration. I have some cards that need one even at 33MHz on certain motherboards. Make sure waitstates are specified.

[/quote]

JaNoZ wrote:

So ET4000W32P is the ownage.? but only if 2megged up.

I have a bunch of those ALG cards and some Cirrus logic and hope to test all in the near future.

Btw testing those cards should also be done at a normal level like 66 or 100mhz cpu instead of 266mhz LN2 am5x86 😉, winner can change in that regions.

I completely agree that any testing should be done at a level that it easy for most people to replicate (for instance a board with the DX2-66, DX4-100 or 133mhz AMD 5x86). Testing VLB cards with an overclocked 200mhz 5x86 cpu gives some interesting results and should in theory put away any CPU limitation factors, but very few people have access to replicate those test environments.

Probably all VLB cards are designed to run 33mhz fast or 40 and or 50 mhz with added delays.
So a iDX2-66 or iDX4-100 would be nice to see results from also the am5x86 at 133 or 150 or 160.
My experience with VLB cards ingeneral was that FSB upping above 40mhz would be a bad thing and unstable or nogo.
I remember my ET4000 to run great at GTA1 instead of running pci cards like alliance semiconductor chip pased cards lke AT24 or AT25 (but using an irq for vga is a must have for speed and these AT cards did not use irq).
But S3 trio64+ defeats my ET4000VLB so thats when i stopped using the Tseng's

I have a S3 765, a S3 805 i believe.
ET4000W32i and W32p's
ALG2228's and some CL cards and two chips and tech vlb cards with chips starting with 64xxx i believe.
Back in the day i used Drhard software tool to bench the vga write speeds and check performance wise.
The real challenge is to find a card that runs best for quake1 as it is picky for vga cards and best fps ratio.
I also used build engine game Blood to check when i got my highest FPS on screen, because it was my favorite game back then, S3 also excelled.

Using scitech's Univbe might also change some things performance wise, in a good way.

I don't see the big attraction to VL bus. You might be able to clock VL Bus cards a little higher but you can run later cards that run faster anyway in a PCI slot 486 motherboard even at the lower PCI bus speed. You can't tell me that a Tseng ET4000W32P is going to be faster than a Voodoo 3 at anything even with more bandwith available across the bus.

I general chose the VLB boards because of more ISA slots.. Then you have the most profit of both worlds..

Only ISA then you have to cope with slow graphics card, because of slow interconnection. I/O cards on ISA doesnt really matter.. Although i had seen the difference with an ISA floppy / hdd controller vs VLB one.. on the VLB board.. The ISA floppy card was slow on reaction when waiting on the dos prompt back.. The VLB one where more speedy..

If you using an PCI / ISA motherboard.. You generally have to put the graphics card and I/O controller on the PCI slots.. And having a limited of isa slots.. normally 3 or 4..

The limited ISA slots on PCI boards usually isn't a problem since they usually have I/O built on (one ISA/VL slot saved) and most of your I/O intensive cards like video and network are going to be PCI anyway. The only card that normally HAS to sit on the ISA bus on a DOS machine is the sound card.

VL-ISA boards were generally decent mainstream performers as long as your VLB IDE controller didn't act up. There weren't any 100Mbit Ethernet cards for VL bus though, and the VLB SCSI cards were very hit-or-miss. EISA/VLB boards fill the gap and are generally of high quality, but rare these days. They also sadly don't support newer 486 platform features like L1 writeback cache, 3.3v CPUs (only one board had that), and APM power management.

Limited isa slots become an problem when you want to use multiple cards anyway.. If you want to quick build a 486 system(cheap as possible) then indeed a pci board should be easier to start with.. But most of those cards on that past days where mostly ISA cards.. Gravis ultrasound is, AWE 32 is, most controller cards are isa.. And the I/O controller on a pci board is nice to have, but is bios limited.. Mostly it doesnt support really big GB drives.. Maybe some do, but you have to find them.. I personnally prefer loose floppy / hdd controllers because they have better drive capacity support.. Mostly till 8.4GB..

Some people dont care about there system, it only needs to be quick build, an less costs. But there are also collectors that do care more about there vintage systems.. Money isnt mostly the problem.. But prefer the best form the best.

Agreed, the attraction to VLB is mainly the nostalgy and challenge factor, plus the unique / vintage nature of the hardware. VLB shines on a 486 but it is crippled on a Pentium hybrid board. On the other hand, PCI is weak on the 486 boards (busmastering issues again, lack of fixed clocks / proper dividers) but matured on a 2nd gen. Pentium board...