David Carson on surf, magazines, graphic design and inspiration
“Trust your gut. Only do it if you’re passionate about it. Put yourself into the work. Make it personal and subjective.”
Mateus Lages: Hi, David. How are you doing today?
David Carson: Hey. Decent. Medium. I’m in New York. Hot and humid right now.
ML: What are you working on nowadays?
DC: I’m working on a poster series for Harvard Graduate School of Design. I’m in charge of their publicity and poster for the upcoming school year and their speaker series. It’s a cool project, as I’ll end up creating over 30 different posters for various events and speakers. Each one will be dependent on the speaker or event itself, so it’s a lot of work and research, but also a lot of fun. At the end of the school year I think it will be an interesting group of posters and whatever else works its way in. Originally they told me they just wanted two posters one for each semester announcing all the events, and I said “no, I’ll do a separate poster for each speaker and event.” I should be starting it today, but decided to talk with you before starting. I’m also rebranding a post house in Dubai, giving them a new look, website and all that. I’m designing a poster for my upcoming talk in Peru, some stuff for The Hundreds Clothing Company and a start-up that takes people around the world for adventure, surf, and fishing. I’m also doing a website for a new line of healthy chips and snacks, and a travel thing for Muse magazine from Italy. The usual weird mix of stuff. I tend not to have a ton of clients at any one time, but some pretty interesting ones.
ML: Has your work process changed throughout the years?
DC: Well, I’m sitting here with my headphones blaring and a large cup of coffee, and I’d have to say, no, not much. Always worked this way. I think I work much the same way I always have. I’m trying to interpret something emotionally visually. I’m reading the brief or article, or listening to the music, and deciding where that sends me, and what would it look like. I always try a lot of different ideas for any project, and I am comfortable showing clients a lot of work that I think with some tweaking could work. I’m very low tech.
ML: What were you doing before graphic design and art direction?
DC: Teaching Sociology, Psychology, Economics and world history at Torrey Pines high school in Del Mar, California.
“After the end of this two-week course, I’ve never been so clear about what I wanted to do. I quit teaching, gave up tenure at the school (meaning I could retire there) which I always thought it was a scary prospect, and never looked back.”
ML: Why did you make the transition into graphic design?
DC: Somewhat by accident. I was teaching, which I didn’t love or hate, it was just ok. I was ok with it and the hours were good for surfing or whatever. All not good reasons to go into teaching. Regardless, I got a postcard in the mail (yes snail mail!) that I was asked to post for the students, announcing a 2-week graphic design course during the summer break. There was a description about what the students would be studying, and I thought “Wow! That’s a profession? Can you make a living from that? It sounds fun and creative!”. So I called the university in and said “I’m a teacher but could I attend this thing as well?”. They said sure, come on down. It was at the University of Arizona in Tucson and so hot that planes weren’t allowed to take off on some days, but a dry heat, making it somewhat bearable. After the end of this two-week course, I’ve never been so clear about what I wanted to do. I quit teaching, gave up tenure at the school (meaning I could retire there) which I always thought it was a scary prospect, and never looked back.
ML: What are some of the projects you’ve most enjoyed working on?
DC: Beach Culture magazine for sure. We did six issues in two years. I worked 24/7 a bit obsessed. A real work of love and passion. No money nor did it remotely manner. I had total freedom, and no one had to approve my design and layouts. Just me and the editor Neil Fineman. I think it’s my best editorial work. Later when I did the music magazine Ray Gun, it went crazy with press and acclaim and love and hate. I was wondering what’s the big deal because I’ve been doing this type of work with Beach Culture magazine. But the big deal was that Ray Gun had distribution, and people everywhere could find it, and they’d never seen anything like it. I eventually called the letters from readers section “Actual Letters.” They were all, so glowing people began thinking we were making them up. At Beach Culture, if we ever saw some in stores, we’d usually buy them and throw them in the trunk of the car. That way we figured, the store would report the magazine as sold out and would want more copies or at least, the next issue. It’s scheme to help us get another issue to play and work on. Another work that stand out was my work for Nine Inch Nails. I wasn’t a big fan, and that’s why it worked. I came to appreciate what Trent Reznor does, and how normal he was to work with. An amazing process took place in New York, New Orleans and finally in the Bahamas in the recording studio built for Bob Marley, who was not allowed into the USA because he’d been caught smoking pot. The project just kept growing with the posters, postcards, and I used all my photography for it and even directed a commercial for the MTV Music Awards, with the band in my studio in New York. I just filmed Trent screaming some lyrics over and over. After the CD came out and debuted at number one, I got an email from Trent, saying how much he enjoyed working with me, how happy he was with the whole experience and results. I thought, “Wow, that’s cool!”. He took the time to write and send it, but also, as a designer, I had interpreted someone’s very personal lyrics and music, and he felt we nailed it. That felt, and still feels good. The next e-mail I got was from a fan saying how much he hated all the packaging, photography, type and everything I had done. I considered about writing him back, but then I thought that with NIN I’ve just interpreted these guys amazingly personal music and words. So number one: he’s happy with it. Number two: as a designer, I was happy with the results. And number three: well, there isn’t a number three. Trent’s happy, I’m happy. End of discussion. I never wrote the guy back.
“Surfers can be a surprisingly conservative, redneck, bigoted and even racist group. There’s not a WSL pro surfer competing today who’s ever graduated from college, which is often painfully evident in their post heat interviews.”
ML: There is a certain stigma about surfers in popular culture. Have stereotypes of surfers changed throughout the years?
DC: Yes and yes. When I first started my graphic design career, and Beach Culture magazine, I pretty much ran from the surfer label. It was hard to get people to take you seriously. I rarely mentioned my long history of surfing. I remember calling artists to participate from New York and hearing, “Beach Culture? Isn’t that an oxymoron?”. I purposely, with Beach Culture, contacted some of the best illustrators and artists in the world to contribute to the magazine. For free. And I got most all of them, don’t remember ever being turned down. I offered them something they still wanted no matter how rich or famous they’d become, and that was freedom, near total freedom. They still craved that. Once the magazine got some traction, I started using lesser or totally known, or unknown artists, often still in college or whatever. I know I helped to launch a few careers, both in photography and illustration. Fast forward to today, in September, I’m the main speaker at a big launch of a new social media platform. All the promo material calls me “a surfer and a world renown graphic designer” in that order. It’s gone full circle. Everyone surfs today, much like everyone is a writer, designer photographer, etc. And I think it’s now mostly a positive association. Clients like that I still actually surf, still ride a short board, still experiment with equipment, and have a house on a perfect point break in the Caribbean. No doubt some of the stereotypes remain, and like most stereotypes, some are still partly true. Surfers can be a surprisingly conservative, redneck, bigoted and even racist group. There’s not a WSL pro surfer competing today who’s ever graduated from college, which is often painfully evident in their post heat interviews. But yes, the whole world surfs now, there’s money to be made, and the general perception has improved. And I have surf shots all over my social media and website. I just finished a cover for a large Brazilian surf magazine yesterday. And Brazil, by the way, is the new surf capital of the world I’d say. At least in terms of progressive surfing. No one saw that coming. And Tofino in Canada is regularly named as a world class surf destination. Which never would have happened to a cold water place in the past.
ML: You get a lot of accolades for Ray Gun. How did that come about?
DC: A guy in Los Angeles contacted me to design a new music magazine he was launching, called Ray Gun. The thinking was that music was changing, and rather than just the tired Spin and Rolling Stone formatted magazines, the new music should have its magazine, and I gave it its look. People noticed, loved and hated it, and it all happened at the time that computers were seriously being used to make magazines. Exciting times, and a lot of experimentation. Something seemingly lost in most areas today, whether in magazines, websites or agency works. They seem to have forgotten the powerful language of design.
“Nowadays there’s a ton of professionally designed, finely readable and ultimately forgettable magazines out there. Everyone’s found the same software and programs, and designers have gotten lazy, letting the computer make decisions they should be making.”
ML: What were some of the reasons it had to go out of publication?
DC: I was there three years, 30 issues. Many tried after I left to keep its spirit alive, with mixed results. At some point, it was sold, and the new buyer called me and asked me to do a page in their mag. They also explained to me that it was going to “now be a serious music magazine”, and “not all that design stuff” that, of course, was its final nail in the coffin. They lasted two issues. It was and still is, very hard to get people to jump into a gray page of typography no matter how brilliantly it was written. It’s the designer’s job to invite or entice them in, where hopefully, they will be rewarded with good writing. People used to complain that Ray Gun was just for artists, photographers and designers. And I’d say: yes. I’ll take em, that’s a valid audience. I’m already getting the folks whose favorite band is on the cover, so why not get people picking it up to see what new illustrators or artists I’d found? What experimental photography or what was going on with the design and typography? Nowadays there’s a ton of professionally designed, finely readable and ultimately forgettable magazines out there. Everyone’s found the same software and programs, and designers have gotten lazy, letting the computer make decisions they should be making.
ML: What are the first steps when taking on a new project?
DC: I explore, read, and devour all info I’ve been given. The solution and or direction is in the materials you’re given and not in some outside source, or awards book or someone else work. Then I start exploring and playing on my laptop. It was Marshall McLuhan who said when you’re partially involved in something; that’s work. When you’re totally committed and fully immersed in something, it’s no longer work. It’s play or leisure. I play a lot. Making a living from my hobby.
“Never snap to guides or let your computer make all those decisions for you. Trust your gut. I think for strong, effective design, one needs to have a good eye, the right intuition. Even the famous corporate logo designer Paul Rand once said, “It’s all intuition”, and if you don’t have it, I’m pretty sure it can’t be taught.”
ML: You have a distinct style of design. A lot of designers emulated it in the early 2000’s. Most people nowadays lean toward more sparse minimalist design. How can a designer that is not following the trends still maintain an audience to voice his opinions today?
DC: It’s a thin line between simple and powerful and simple and boring, and most end up in the safe, boring and forgettable zone. When I post anything a little bit more experimental, or hands down or whatever, I get more response, likes or whatever, than ever. I think people are slowly or not so slowly ready again for a little more humanity, feeling, subjectivity, personality and non perfection in design. The only way a designer can stand out, or maintain an audience is to stay true to who they are as a person. No one can pull from that, no one has your background or unique life experiences. Pull from that in your work. Everyone can, and does, buy the same software. Do what feels right to you. Never snap to guides or let your computer make all those decisions for you. Trust your gut. I think for strong, effective design, one needs to have a good eye, the right intuition. Even the famous corporate logo designer Paul Rand once said, “It’s all intuition”, and if you don’t have it, I’m pretty sure it can’t be taught.
“You’re going to be dead soon, and you’re spending the best years, days and hours of your life doing something you’re not immersed and obsessed with. You can pay bills, and that is what that is all about. Jeez.”
ML: There is a larger demand for graphic designers today. The tools are more readily available. Can the self-taught have the edge? A friend of mine dropped out of a graphic design major because of the constraints. Is it crucial to study graphic design in school?
DC: Those who have an intuitive eye and sense for it. School or no school neither guarantee success nor is one better than the other. I have no formal design training. My degree is in sociology. I never learned all the things I’m not supposed to do. I just did what made sense to me. I’m sure if I had a traditional four-year, or more degree in graphic design, we would not be having this conversation now. I’m not anti-schooling. I think it’s better to do a combination of classes, hear some speakers, experience a lot, read, observe, attend a conference or 3, get your schooling in these ways. If you’ve got the talent, you’ll thrive. If you don’t, well, find that thing you would do if you didn’t need the money. I often ask students, or any group I’m speaking to: ask yourself, if money were not an issue, would you be doing the same work? And if you would, then you’ve got a great job. If not, what exactly is the point? You’re going to be dead soon, and you’re spending the best years, days and hours of your life doing something you’re not immersed and obsessed with. You can pay bills, and that is what that is all about. Jeez.
“It has gone so far that we now have an overly homogenize design field, very little experimentation, and a lot of boring, forgettable non-inviting design as a result of someone trying to do simple or clean.”
ML: You were pioneering some of the first software for design. Did you think it would ever go this far?
DC: I was the last hold out. I only gave up art boards and pasting down pages because the printers at some point said they would no longer accept art boards, they would only take Syquests. So, early the mistakes made, and things that happened to try to figure out this new stuff called software. Because something is a mistake doesn’t make it good, but sometimes, if you are open to it, stuff that happens when you weren’t expecting can be your best results. It’s a bit like cell phone camera. They were so much more interesting when the cameras weren’t any good, and you got all this cool, weird stuff. Now they’re too perfect, too sterile too devoid of life. And “Whoa, what about those filters!”, “Look, honey, antique!”. New software and mad computers allowed me to try a lot of ideas faster, to look at a lot of directions and weed out those not working. It’s still how I work today. If you don’t have an innate design sense, the computer won’t give it to you. I can teach anyone to do a reasonable business card, newsletter, catalog or decent looking website. But I’m more interested in how someone might interpret music visually, do something no one else would. I used this new software as another tool. It has gone so far that we now have an overly homogenize design field, very little experimentation, and a lot of boring, forgettable non-inviting design as a result of someone trying to do simple or clean.
“I was never some frustrated old skater trying to stay close to the sport by scoring a job in the industry. I was trying to learn graphic design and Transworld Skateboarding became my vehicle.”
ML: Street skating was being invented while you were at Transworld. When did the ads start showing more guys on the streets rather than in pools or ramps?
DC: That took a while. I think that black and white cover of Todd Swank street skating under the freeway bridge was a bit of a landmark in that transition. My assistant, an amazing street skater, Gary Davis, hated that cover because it was set up. We sent Grant Brittain out to shoot, it wasn’t spontaneous, and to Gary that was selling street skaters short. That was pretty cool of Gary. I still think it was one of our best covers in the three years I was there, and I was just happy it was black and white with no cover blurbs. And Todd had a good natural style, hat on backward before it was the rule, etc. It would have been better I think with the current logo they still use, the non-italic one. I don’t have any clear memory of thinking, “Oh! All the ads are now street skating!”. I did and do think it’s a much more soulful version of skating. Funny how the surf world is, as always behind the skating world in all areas, and now having the debate: is Ariel surfing soulful or rail surfing? Gator signing autographs was a cool breakthrough cover I thought. No action, just a guy swamped after an event signing autograph in all his gear to frenzied fans. People forget that skateboarding had died. Surfer magazine’s most successful publication, Skateboarder, had quit publishing. The sport died, and years later Transworld was partially responsible for its rebirth. And it’s never slowed down since. But I was trying to learn this thing called graphic design. All pre-computers, I had no training or schooling, but I had the eye. I used to have to crawl over skaters sleeping in the art room at Tracker Trucks where we did the magazine. Transworld was my schooling. It was a great medium and subject matter for the way I work and see things. I was always looking out to see if I could use anything from the envelope the writer or photographer sent in, maybe the stamp or whatever. I hate when magazines just create a box for the photo before they’ve seen the photo, then just drop it in regardless of how it looks. For me, the photo itself dictates how it needs to be used. Does it need to bleed? To be cropped, mucked with on the copier? But to just drop it into a pre-set up frame, it loses all its impact, feeling, and emotion. I was never some frustrated old skater trying to stay close to the sport by scoring a job in the industry. I was trying to learn graphic design and Transworld Skateboarding became my vehicle.
ML: Was the importance of this change evident at first?
DC: Not so much to me. The issues got better once street skating started getting more importance and pages. The mag got a lot better, looked better, felt better. You no longer had to be an acrobat or gymnast to be a skater, more kids could relate, and style became an important factor.
ML: Did you ever work with Natas Kapuas?
DC: Not at TWS, but I was aware of articles and photos and ads with him in them. Great board graphics. Great art. Great style. Almost 15 years later I would work with him when I was the art director at Quiksilver. Great guy, great artist. I visited him at his very cool house in Venice Beach. I was using his hand lettering a lot, and eventually he became art director for them. Quiksilver could surely use him now as they fight to stay alive and have for some years.
ML: Natas and Mark Gonzales are very artistically inclined guys it makes sense that they saw things differently and revolutionized skateboarding. Who could you compare to them from the surfing world?
DC: Very few. Skating has always been way ahead of surfing, in movies and art especially. Surfing was and always has been. Way behind. Only recently has surfing started getting better art wise. I’d say Dane Reynolds by far is the clearest connection: amazing surfer, original and also amazing artist. After that, it drops off pretty dramatically. But surfers, are finally realizing it’s ok to write on your boards, to not have perfect color, pin lines, etc. But to have the talent in both, arts and to skate, like Natas and Mark have, there are no good comparisons in surfing. The ones that come close as artists, in surfing, are usually the guys into retro surfing, and that was never the case with Natas and Mark. Surfers are a conservative group, still largely lost on airbrushed palm trees, perfect offshore waves and half naked, dark-skinned girls with flowers in hair or more recently, thinking “Wow! What about colored stripes on my board?!”
ML: You do a lot of public speaking. What sort of advice are you giving to aspiring graphic artists?
DC: Trust your gut. Only do it if you’re passionate about it. Put yourself into the work. Make it personal and subjective. Play music you like while you work. If all your friends and family love your work, you’re playing it way too safe.
ML: Any last words?
Interview by Mateus Lages
Originally published at UNDER PRESSURE, issue #2, Suburbia, with covers designed by David Carson.
Get your copy here.
