The Caproni CC2 N1

[Dalless 520]

Italy should get a early jet fighter as this was the operational jet in the world which flew in 1940 I believe. I think it may have beat the Germans by a month or so. And I think they made two of them. Performamce wasn't great but Italy was taking a beat at the time so they put more resources into refining it. Maybe this could be a Tier 3 early jet? Some pictures.

 

 

[Dalless 520]

Let me restate what I wrote. I meant to say that Italy was taking a beating at the time this fighter was being made operational. They needed more time to refine it but due to how the war was going, resources were put into more urgent needs.

[Serpiko82 7,875]

This is NO fighter aircraft. More like a technology testbed. 

[Dalless 520]

I beg to differ. This aircraft was flown, is not a paper design and had two aircraft made. See below. This aircraft could have been easily fitted out with guns. The only thing stopping it was the armistice. As i said, this would be an early jet and fill the gap between props and 50's jets. To me, testbeds are tests on the ground, not two operational aircraft.

 

Subsequent flight tests with the first prototype led to a maximum speed of roughly 320 MPH being recorded. However, testing revealed several issues with the engine; particularly the determination that it lacked the ability to produce sufficient thrust to achieve high performance if it were to be matched to a strengthened airframe to withstand the high loading pressures.^[3] One of the more unusual issues to be encountered during the flight test programme was the considerable amount of engine heat which was conveyed into the cockpit; in order to fly the aircraft, the crew were forced to keep the canopy open throughout the flight, which effectively vented the heat.^[5]

According to aviation author Sterling Michael Pavelec, the first flight of the N.1 had "showed that the plane was a failure...[being] heavy and underpowered"; he observed that the pre-existing Caproni Vizzola F.4 (a conventionally-powered aircraft) was capable of a greater maximum speed.^[8] Pavelec attributed the underwhelming performance have been a product of limited national resources which had not only undermined the potential performance for any turbojet programme but also mainstream piston engines, which he claimed to be typically underfunded and prone to technical difficulties, leading to Italian engine manufacturers mainly restricting themselves to traditional and low-powered models while German industry became increasingly relied upon for the production of high-powered engines.^[11]

 

The N.1 overflying Piazza Venezia in Rome during its celebratory flight

On 30 November 1941, the second prototype was flown by pilot De Bernardi and engineer Giovanni Pedace from Milan's Linate Airport to Rome's Guidonia Airport, in a highly publicised event that included a fly-past over Rome and a reception with Italian Prime Minister Benito Mussolini.^{[citation needed]} It held the distinction of being the first cross-country jet flight to occur, as well as being the first mail delivery to be performed by a jet-powered aircraft.^{[citation needed]} The flight included a stopover at Pisa, possibly to refuel, and was conducted entirely without the use of the rear burner.^[2][7]

Irrespective of its shortcomings, the N.1 served as a demonstrator and pioneer of jet technology being applied to the field of aviation. The November 1941 flight resulted in no less than 33 nations, some of which being at a state of war with Italy, sending their official congratulations in recognition of the achievement;^{[citation needed]} in this respect, the N.1 could be viewed as having been relatively successful. Aircraft designers and engineers around the world paid attention to the findings; according to economics author Harrison Mark, Soviet aircraft design bureau TsAGI obtained details on the N.1 programme and were encouraged to pursue work on a similar design; as such, there is a basis for stating that the design of the N.1 influenced subsequent early jet aircraft.^[12]

The experience gained from the N.1 proved influential to Campini. Having formed a partnership with another Italian aircraft company, Reggiane, and aircraft designer Roberto Longhi, he commenced work on an entirely new design; this would have represented a significant departure from the N.1, including the decision to abandon the indigenous Italian engine it used in favour of a German-provided counterpart.^{[citation needed]} This aircraft, the Reggiane Re.2007, was envisioned to be a combat-capable fighter, unlike the purely experimental N.1.^{[citation needed]} Campini would go on to work on a number of jet-powered aircraft, including the Boeing B-47 Stratojet.^{[citation needed]}

Testing of the two N.1 prototypes continued into 1943, however the programme was heavily hindered by events of the Second World War, specifically the extensive Allied invasion of Italy which would see the collapse of the nation's Fascist government. During an Allied bombing raised upon Caproni's factory in Taliedo, one of the experimental aircraft was destroyed.^{[citation needed]} After the conflict had reached its end in 1945, one of the remaining prototypes was transported to the United Kingdom for study at the Royal Aircraft Establishment (RAE) in Farnborough. This aircraft was subsequently lost and its whereabouts have remained unknown.^[2]

[OddPhenomena 1,015]

What would be the point of it though? It has no armament and as far as I know can't carry any bombs, you can say it "could have easily been fitted with guns", but how do we know what they were? Just guess? Well, it worked for top tier tanks I guess it could work here.

[Serpiko82 7,875]

I'm not arguing about the existence of this plane. I'm just saying that it was designed to test the experimental jet technology, and pretty sure it was never meant to eventually become a war machine as it was. 

 

You don't just "strap two guns on a plane and make it a fighter". Not after 1914 at least. A fighter plane needs guns, ammo for said guns, some pilot protection, aiming system, weapons controls, a large fuel tank for range, good all-around visibility, strengthened frame and spars for high G maneuvers, and a lot of other stuff that a testbed prototype DOESN'T need, and therefore isn't supposed to have when it is designed. 

 

By this logic, Italy built in the early '30s the Macchi Castoldi MC 72, a plane whose world speed record for piston powered seaplanes still stands nowadays, at over 700 km/h. "So why didn't Italy make a fighter of it?" Because, of course, such outstanding performance was the result of a project that made no compromises, sacrificing anything else in favor of pure speed. The goal was to make a plane able to reach and keep the highest possible speed on a fixed circuit, in favorable weather conditions, for half an hour or little more. And without anybody shooting at it in the meantime. No room in the design for any combat equipment whatsoever. 

[ANYangeloVV 542]

if you think the CC2 can be fitted as a fighter, then i want one based on this too

Edited June 9, 2018 by ANYangeloVV

[Serpiko82 7,875]

14 minutes ago, ANYangeloVV said:

if you think the CC2 can be fitted as a fighter, then i want one based on this too

 

No need for guns. It kills enemy planes by ingesting them. 

[Handorik 539]

9 hours ago, Dalless said:

Subsequent flight tests with the first prototype led to a maximum speed of roughly 320 MPH being recorded.

 

 

On which planet?

Spoiler

 

Edited June 9, 2018 by Handorik

[BrentD15@psn 1,116]

It's unarmed, so no.

[Dalless 520]

6 hours ago, Handorik said:

 

 

On which planet?

  Reveal hidden contents

 

You can check the Wikipedia page. The snip is directly from there. If you got a problem with the statement, complain to Wikipedia.

 

You try to be a patriot, and everyone shoots you full of holes. Well, that's the end of my forum writing experience.

[Dalless 520]

One more thing. If we can have the F82 double Mustang which is pure paper, why not this with some generic or typical guns thrown on it?

 

What about the new German dual fuselage plane Bf 110 which is two 109s stuck together. Again another pure paper design. 

 

I am not saying lets put paper designs everywhere but at this flew. I don't expect a response. I put this out there for people to consider why some and not others.

Correction, not Bf 110, the Bf109Z which is in the store now.

[Mardek 232]

Sorry dude, im the first to support an italian plane to add but this is just too much... If a paper plane its really needed i would prefer a SAI SS4 or a P133, both almost completed and useful to the tree

[Serpiko82 7,875]

17 hours ago, Dalless said:

You try to be a patriot, and everyone shoots you full of holes. Well, that's the end of my forum writing experience.

 

No need at all to play victim. You proposed your idea, we answered why we think it's not feasible and unnecessary. Nobody here offended you. 

[Rapitor 10,702]

On 09/06/2018 at 12:06, Serpiko82 said:

 

No need for guns. It kills enemy planes by ingesting them. 

You won my smile

 

17 hours ago, Dalless said:

One more thing. If we can have the F82 double Mustang which is pure paper, why not this with some generic or typical guns thrown on it?

F-82 is ANYTHING but a paper plane.

It was built, deployed and flew.

[Охраняет-Камни 6,650]

It could be nice special race only event vehicle)

[Dalless 520]

12 hours ago, Rapitor said:

You won my smile

 

F-82 is ANYTHING but a paper plane.

It was built, deployed and flew.

Whoa there padre! My mistake. It looks fake but I checked and yup it's real. Holy smoke! Now I got moderators coming after me.

[vmaxWT 2,674]

4 hours ago, Dalless said:

Whoa there padre! My mistake. It looks fake but I checked and yup it's real. Holy smoke! Now I got moderators coming after me.

 

Next time before saying something, take the time to do a five seconds Google search, it save you from saying stupid things. Don't blame others for your errors.

[Dalless 520]

Since you are only 28 years old I'll give you a pass since you think you are perfect and haven't had the experience of time to tone down your arrogance and bravado.

And can some Mod close this discussion because I don't need to listen to every yahoo's comment. Thank you.

[UncleGiuseppe 84]

what

[vmaxWT 2,674]

38 minutes ago, Dalless said:

Since you are only 28 years old I'll give you a pass since you think you are perfect and haven't had the experience of time to tone down your arrogance and bravado.

And can some Mod close this discussion because I don't need to listen to every yahoo's comment. Thank you.

 

So you are older than 28, yet you still didn't learn how to double check your statements, nor that wikipedia is not a trustworthy source. Bravo. And it seems that your only way to relation with people who do not agree with is with aggression.

[Dalless 520]

listen buddy, I wasn't texting to you in the first place but to the mod who said I was wrong. So go troll somewhere else. Or go have some KoolAid in your mom's basement as you play War Thunder.

"your only way to relation " Seems to me that you should check your grammar.  - ---- Your only way to relate ........

Oh and don't use Wikipedia as it's so untrustworthy.

[vmaxWT 2,674]

17 minutes ago, Dalless said:

listen buddy, I wasn't texting to you in the first place but to the mod who said I was wrong. So go troll somewhere else. Or go have some KoolAid in your mom's basement as you play War Thunder.

 

Then you should learn to quote when you're not referring to the post right above yours. Still, my point is valid, your only way to deal with people is with anger.

[Serpiko82 7,875]

This thread started with bona fide ingenuity, a pair of disagreeing (yet polite) comments were enough to trigger an "everybody here hates me" reaction, then it quickly degenerated into empty (and banal) ad hominem attacks. Indeed, this had better be closed asap. 

 

[SergenteA 223]

Armimg this plane wasn't even considered. It would make it directly fantasy, even more than the Panther 2 (the engineers atleast thought about putting a long 88 in it).