Denzel Washington and Tony Scott are back on track

John Ford found his muse in the laconic, masculine John Wayne, while Don Siegel liked featuring a taciturn Clint Eastwood in his thrillers. The director Tony Scott has found his go-to hero, an often flawed, seemingly ordinary guy who rises to the occasion, in the Oscar winner Denzel Washington. Together the unlikely pairing of the British action director who specializes in fast-paced, stylized action flicks ("Top Gun," ''The Last Boy Scout") and an American leading man typically associated for his stirring portrayals of inspirational men like Malcolm X and the football coach Herman Boone, have made five films together. In their latest, "Unstoppable" — the others are "Crimson Tide," ''Man on Fire," ''Deja Vu" and "The Taking of Pelham 1 2 3," from last year — Washington plays a veteran engineer who must safely halt an out-of-control locomotive in Pennsylvania carrying combustible liquids, with or without the assistance of his headstrong rookie conductor (Chris Pine). The movie is loosely based on an actual incident in which a train in Ohio traveled 66 miles without a crew member on board.

Recently, after a long day of an international press junket, Scott and Washington met with Margy Rochlin in an ocean-view suite at the Casa del Mar hotel in Santa Monica, Calif., to discuss a range of subjects, including how their joint projects come about as well as the exact speed at which a nugget of sugary breakfast cereal can be frightening. These are excerpts from the conversation.

Question: Who initiated "Unstoppable"?

Tony Scott (points to Mr. Washington): You told me about the script when we were doing "Pelham." Then I got someone to send me a copy of it. (He laughs.)

Washington: You're right. I forgot I read it a year or two earlier. I think what happened is that I'd already signed on to do "Pelham." It was like, "I can't do both of these at the same time."

Question: So there's a script you both like. What's next?

Scott: I went to Pennsylvania and interviewed different guys. I made a mini-movie using old movies like "Runaway Train," television footage from the actual event and the interviews. Then I showed it to D and said, "This is the tone of the movie." For me, that's part of how I find my vision. I do a tremendous amount of research. Then I come to the studio with this little movie. No matter how much you talk about it, they still don't get it. But you show them a four-minute movie?

Question: Denzel, how does Tony's research affect you?

Washington: It's a treat to get a glimpse into the man's head. Sometimes it's like, "If you don't want to do the movie, don't go to that office." Because you know he's going to have all this stuff. One of the key things for "Man on Fire" (about a former assassin out to avenge the girl he was hired to protect) was that he gave me "The Iceman," a tape about a guy who killed about 200 people. What helped me was how he talked about killing. He was so matter of fact.

Question: At what point was it clear that you two had become a team?

Washington: He didn't call me for nine years. (He laughs.) There wasn't much collaboration between "Crimson Tide" and "Man on Fire." Then I ran into him at acupuncture, and he was like, "Oh!" (He laughs.) I ran into him. That's the only reason I got the job!

Question: Tony, has Denzel ever passed on one of your movies?

Scott: I've had to push him to come to the well. Especially with "Pelham."

Question: Denzel, what changed your mind?

Washington: Little things started clicking. I thought: "I want this guy's clothes to be a little tight. He's a little overweight. He's really not sexy." I think that's the first time I'd played that kind of a character. I loved that he spills coffee on himself, that I have a yellow plastic bag that I put my sweater in when I leave. I dug that.

Question: How so?

Washington: As you get older and wiser, you start realizing how screwed up and fragile you are. I don't mind sharing that — in an environment where I feel safe. I'm not blaming anybody, but certain directors don't know where you're trying to go, how to help you get there or when to stay out of your way. They may already have their shot all figured out. (He imitates an auteur airily giving direction.) "Here, we want you to feel confused." (He mimes upending a camera.) "You see? He's confused." And I'm like: "No, I'm not. I'm just upside down." (He laughs.)

Question: You've just spent hours talking to the press. What's your answer to "Why another train movie?"

Scott: I didn't do another train movie. "Pelham" was a hostage movie, a full-on character-driven piece. This is a combination of character and action. It's a hundred thousand tons of steel crossed with two guys in conflict.

People wanted to know why I didn't use CG (computer graphics). It's that it felt wrong. I wanted to put the audience inside that cab with those guys. I loved the reality, the weight of the train. The windows are open. It's cold. It's different when you get actors on a stage and ask them to respond to a tennis ball at the end of a bit of wire. To capture that energy and momentum and feel with CG, you'd have to be Einstein.

Question: Speaking of real, there's a scene in "Unstoppable" where a train car opens up. Whatever it is — grain? — that comes gusting towards him, Denzel gives a very convincing performance of a man trying not to be hit by it.

Washington: What was that? Sugar Pops and potato flakes? What you don't realize is that when you look out the window of a train going 50 miles per hour, and that stuff starts flying out and you're like: (He holds up arms to protect eyes). A Sugar Pop at 50 miles per hour is nothing to be played with.

Question: Denzel, did you confer with Tony before directing your first movie, "Antwone Fisher"?

Washington (He groans): Talk about petrified. One time I called up Tony and said (terrified voice): "Man, this directing. I can't get any sleep. I'm waking up at 1 a.m. and thinking, 'Jeez, I forgot the shot I didn't get.' Then I'm up for the rest of the night." And he said (nonchalantly): "Yes. That's never going to go away." (He laughs.)

Question: Denzel, you are heights-phobic, yet at one point in "Unstoppable" Tony had you run along the top of a speeding train. Why say yes?

Washington: Heights didn't use to bother me. It's only since I've been in the movie business. But I've got an ego. A year later I don't want to be having a conversation like the one we're having right now, and you're asking me, "So I heard you were afraid to do the stunt."

Question: What's most appealing about working together?

Scott: What I get off on is that we challenge each other. Out of the five movies Denzel gives me a different aspect of his personality, always something different inside of him.

Washington: One of the reasons I love working for Tony is because it's like, "Damn, you can't outwork this guy." I'm there at 4 a.m., and I'll find out that Tony's already been there for seven hours. I'm like, "That means he never left!" He's tough. He can fight. He's thorough, he's done his homework. He can shoot, edit. He can do everything. But he also still loves it. That's infectious. You get on board because you know it's going to be a good ride.