No speed shown on speeding ticket?
Discussion
A friend (genuinely not me 🤣) has received a speeding ticket/NIP from West Mercia Police via post for "offence of exceed 30mph speed limit....... The speed limit for the vehicle was 30mph".
There's no detail of WHAT speed he was doing, just the limit. When I've had one before it showed the limit and the actual speed in a box in the middle of the page - as does West Mercia Police's website. No number either, he's already sent details off and believes he was in the area at the time.
Should it not be showing the actual speed he was doing? It just doesn't seem to make any sense that his actual speed isn't shown.
There's no detail of WHAT speed he was doing, just the limit. When I've had one before it showed the limit and the actual speed in a box in the middle of the page - as does West Mercia Police's website. No number either, he's already sent details off and believes he was in the area at the time.
Should it not be showing the actual speed he was doing? It just doesn't seem to make any sense that his actual speed isn't shown.
If my memory serves correctly, when speed sensing equipment is not available, but a vehicle is being "clearly driven in excess of the speed limit" then that will stand. Effectively, if CCTV/Dashcam or bib sees a bike doing ~100mph or something mad in a 30mph zone, they don't actually need a recorded speed to prosecute - the evidence of a clear breach is sufficient.
As for whether or not the evidence is footage or testimony; I guess your friend will find out.
As for whether or not the evidence is footage or testimony; I guess your friend will find out.
The purpose of a Notice of Intended Prosecution is to give you an early 'heads up' that an authority is taking enforcement action against you. This is to allow you the opportunity to prepare any possible defence.
Material discrepancies in the Notice I.e late service, or incorrect offence MAY invalidate proceedings. This however is a question for the court. Your freind should comply with the notice and seek professional advice as to validity of the notice and its effect on subsequent proceedings
Material discrepancies in the Notice I.e late service, or incorrect offence MAY invalidate proceedings. This however is a question for the court. Your freind should comply with the notice and seek professional advice as to validity of the notice and its effect on subsequent proceedings
stepaway said:
It states the speed limit for the vehicle is 30mph, rather than the street. What cc was the bike?
If 50cc is the speed limit not 28mph and this is referring to some sort of technicality there hence no actual speed exceeded?
Could be completely wrong but the wording is strange
That's what made us question it. He's on an old CB500 so no issues there. Theres also no phone number etc on the paperwork. Everything else points towards that it should be showing a number. He has got an email from someone (who he contacted on the official website) saying to "call the number on the paperwok" to query it! If 50cc is the speed limit not 28mph and this is referring to some sort of technicality there hence no actual speed exceeded?
Could be completely wrong but the wording is strange
Biker9090 said:
stepaway said:
It states the speed limit for the vehicle is 30mph, rather than the street. What cc was the bike?
If 50cc is the speed limit not 28mph and this is referring to some sort of technicality there hence no actual speed exceeded?
Could be completely wrong but the wording is strange
That's what made us question it. He's on an old CB500 so no issues there. Theres also no phone number etc on the paperwork. Everything else points towards that it should be showing a number. He has got an email from someone (who he contacted on the official website) saying to "call the number on the paperwok" to query it! If 50cc is the speed limit not 28mph and this is referring to some sort of technicality there hence no actual speed exceeded?
Could be completely wrong but the wording is strange
stepaway said:
Biker9090 said:
stepaway said:
It states the speed limit for the vehicle is 30mph, rather than the street. What cc was the bike?
If 50cc is the speed limit not 28mph and this is referring to some sort of technicality there hence no actual speed exceeded?
Could be completely wrong but the wording is strange
That's what made us question it. He's on an old CB500 so no issues there. Theres also no phone number etc on the paperwork. Everything else points towards that it should be showing a number. He has got an email from someone (who he contacted on the official website) saying to "call the number on the paperwok" to query it! If 50cc is the speed limit not 28mph and this is referring to some sort of technicality there hence no actual speed exceeded?
Could be completely wrong but the wording is strange
littleredrooster said:
If memory serves me correctly, that is just the S172 form so the driver can be identified. The Notice of Fixed Penalty will follow to whoever the nominated driver is, and should then contain the details of the offence.
It's been a while since I had one, mind you...
This... Once the driver is identified you'll get the actual speeding ticket.It's been a while since I had one, mind you...
CallorFold said:
Bit strange, I've always known the NIP letter to state the speed. It's kind of important to know as well, since it more or less dictates the penalty.
You'd expect the speed is known by WMP, as well as some sort of proof (camera shot etc.) for him being over the limit.
Standard court statements we would give to justify a traffic stop.You'd expect the speed is known by WMP, as well as some sort of proof (camera shot etc.) for him being over the limit.
"From my training and experience I believed that the vehicle was exceeding the legal speed limit"
"From my training and experience I believed the vehicles exhaust noise to be in excess of the legal limit"
"From my training and experience I believed the vehicles window tint was darker than that allowed by law"
Maybe your police use different wording.
littleredrooster said:
NMNeil said:
Standard court statements we would give to justify a traffic stop.
It wasn't a stop if you read the OP. It was a mobile camera.But the original post made no mention of a camera.
"A friend (genuinely not me 🤣) has received a speeding ticket/NIP from West Mercia Police via post for "offence of exceed 30mph speed limit....... The speed limit for the vehicle was 30mph".
There's no detail of WHAT speed he was doing, just the limit. When I've had one before it showed the limit and the actual speed in a box in the middle of the page - as does West Mercia Police's website. No number either, he's already sent details off and believes he was in the area at the time.
Should it not be showing the actual speed he was doing? It just doesn't seem to make any sense that his actual speed isn't shown."
The letter says "Manned equipment" so it could be a radar gun, but again no mention of a camera. Unless you can show me where I'm wrong.
Please read the thread. It's not a speeding ticket. It's a request/demand for driver identification.
Assuming the driver is identified the "speeding ticket" will be sent to the driver. There are pretty vigorous fall-back provisions (hefty fine) if the company fails to identify the driver.
Assuming the driver is identified the "speeding ticket" will be sent to the driver. There are pretty vigorous fall-back provisions (hefty fine) if the company fails to identify the driver.
NMNeil said:
littleredrooster said:
NMNeil said:
Standard court statements we would give to justify a traffic stop.
It wasn't a stop if you read the OP. It was a mobile camera.But the original post made no mention of a camera.
The letter says "Manned equipment" so it could be a radar gun, but again no mention of a camera. Unless you can show me where I'm wrong.
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